E51 - Vivian Song - D5 Seattle School Board Candidate

[00:00:03] Christie Robertson: Welcome to Rainy Day Recess, where we study and discuss Seattle Public Schools. This is our 2025 Seattle School Board candidate series. For each conversation, we start with a lightning round then ask two minute questions on the role of the school board in leadership and governance, and what is the real impact these candidates believe the school board can have on Seattle Public Schools.

Today we're releasing interviews with all six of the District 5 candidates. District 5 is roughly east Seattle. Earlier this week, we released our interviews with D2 and D4 school board candidates, and we'll cover D7 after the primary. Transcripts are available at rainydayrecess.org.

This episode is our interview with Vivian Song. Be sure to listen to our interviews with Allycea Weil, Janis White, Julissa Sanchez, Landon Labosky, and Vivian Van Gelder, which are also in your feed. We'll give you a quick preview of those interviews at the end of this episode.

[00:01:07] Interview start

[00:01:07] Christie Robertson: I'm Christie Robertson, and today I'm here with Vivian Song. Thank you so much for running for School Board, Vivian, and welcome to Rainy Day Recess.

[00:01:18] Vivian Song: Thank you! 

[00:01:19] Lightning Round

[00:01:19] Christie Robertson: We are gonna start with a lightning round, and this is just meant to help, uh, listeners get to know you quickly. 

So, what are your name and pronouns?

[00:01:34] Vivian Song: Vivian Song, and I use she/her pronouns.

[00:01:38] Christie Robertson: And how do you describe, quote, what you do?

[00:01:41] Vivian Song: I am a finance professional and advocate for children.

[00:01:45] Christie Robertson: Which director district are you running for, and what neighborhoods does it encompass?

[00:01:50] Vivian Song: I'm running in District 5, and that encompasses Montlake to the Central District, Leschi to Eastlake, Capitol Hill, Madison Valley, Madison Park.

[00:02:02] Christie Robertson: Okay. Some background questions. Yes/no where possible, but a short explanation if something needs context. 

Have you attended a school board meeting?

[00:02:11] Vivian Song: Yes.

[00:02:13] Christie Robertson: Have you testified at a school board meeting?

[00:02:15] Vivian Song: Yes.

[00:02:16] Christie Robertson: Have you testified in the state legislature?

[00:02:19] Vivian Song: Yes.

[00:02:21] Christie Robertson: And where did you go to school as a child?

[00:02:24] Vivian Song: I went to public school in Ohio.

[00:02:27] Christie Robertson: Do you have, or have you had kids in Seattle Public schools

[00:02:40] Vivian Song: Yes. I have kids in Seattle Public schools.

[00:02:44] Christie Robertson: And outside of Seattle Public schools?

[00:02:46] Vivian Song: Yes. We moved from Tokyo and I currently have kids in private school as well as public school.

[00:02:54] Christie Robertson: Have you worked in education?

[00:02:57] Vivian Song: I have served as a school board director, but I have not had a paid job in education.

[00:03:03] Christie Robertson: Have you been in a union?

[00:03:05] Vivian Song: Yes.

[00:03:07] Christie Robertson: Have you been on a board, which you just answered.

[00:03:10] Vivian Song: Yes, and I actually serve on several nonprofit boards currently that serve children and immigrants.

[00:03:17] Christie Robertson: Have you ever worked with a large budget?

[00:03:20] Vivian Song: Yes, I have worked directly with Seattle Public Schools’ $1.2 billion operating budget, and I've also served on the Levy Oversight Committee for our capital work, and on the Families Education Preschool Promise levy oversight committee for the City of Seattle.

[00:03:38] Christie Robertson: Great. Okay, here's some quick takes. Who is an educational leader you admire?

[00:03:45] Vivian Song: John Stanford. My kids go to John Stanford International School and his portrait is in every classroom. So I bought his out of print book and read it.

[00:03:56] Christie Robertson: Who is the school board director you're looking forward to working with?

[00:03:59] Vivian Song: I would say Director Joe Mizrahi. He was the person who was appointed to replace me when I resigned from the board. And we worked really hard together to transition that role. And I'm really proud of the work that we did together. And we are eager to work together; we've actually endorsed each other's campaigns.

[00:04:18] Christie Robertson: And to be clear, you're now running for different districts.

[00:04:21] Vivian Song: Yes, District 5. He's in District 4.

[00:04:25] Christie Robertson: And what's one education policy you strongly support?

[00:04:28] Vivian Song: The policy is around budgeting. I think it needs to be equitable and student centered. That was what led me to run in the very first place. And I can't say we've made much progress on it since 2021. So, we need a better way to be budgeting.

[00:04:43] Christie Robertson: Philosophically, do you see the school board role more as a trustee with a duty to the institution or as an elected representative, accountable to voters?

[00:04:53] Vivian Song: I would say accountable to voters because this is an elected position. I think if it were an appointed board, like how it is in some other cities that more of a trustee would make sense. 

But I think it doesn't necessarily make me feel like I wouldn't be able to take hard votes that the voters may not like if I felt like that was ultimately the right thing for students.

[00:05:16] Christie Robertson: And what's one thing that you'd change about the school board immediately?

[00:05:21] Vivian Song: I would bring back the Finance committee and Friday memos. And potentially add another school board meeting each month. I know that was three things.

[00:05:31] Christie Robertson: That's okay. And here's the last lightning round question. What's one lightning round question that you would add for other candidates?

[00:05:38] Vivian Song: What is one thing you would do to address the structural deficit?

[00:05:43] Christie Robertson: And how would you answer that question?

[00:05:46] Vivian Song: I would start by looking at what the largest sources of the budget deficit are. I think people would be surprised to know that includes bus transportation and substitutes. I think there's ways that we can be spending our money more efficiently in those categories while delivering better services for students. So I would look at the largest sources of our deficit.

[00:06:07] Main interview questions

[00:06:07] Christie Robertson: Awesome. Thanks Vivian. Now we're going to move on to the main interview questions. And we focused these on institutional change and the role of the school board. You ready?

[00:06:24] Vivian Song: Yeah.

[00:06:25] Christie Robertson: Okay. So, how would you describe what a school board director actually does?

[00:06:30] Vivian Song: So there are five or six things that are listed in the state law. 

• hire and evaluate the superintendent
• set the vision for the district
• adopt policies
• oversee the budget and pass the budget
• serve as community representatives

You know, obviously school board directors do all those things, but I think what has been really missing in the last few years is the “serving as community representatives”.

I think it's been really interesting that the district has been trying to push forward on really large changes and been met with community resistance. I think that is a reflection of the fact that the district hasn't brought community along in those decisions. 

Examples that I can give are certainly the school closure plan but also more recently the discourse around option schools and waitlists. And then from my time when I was serving on the board, changes to the bell times. That was something that was presented in April, would've literally impacted every single person that has any touchpoint in the school district. And it wasn't to say that I felt that "we absolutely cannot change bell times." It was more, my kind of pushback on that was that “we have not talked to community at all about this”. For example, our afterschool providers, they have a coalition, and they reached out to me to let me know how their operations would be impacted by a change like this. And it really would have compromised their ability to provide afterschool care to families. I already know that there's not enough of that. And that is a major factor for how families even make decisions about whether or not to choose Seattle Public schools, and maybe even if they wanna enter the school choice lottery. 

I think that lack of community involvement is something that I think needs to be put front and center in the school board work

[00:08:23] Christie Robertson: What should the school board focus on most when it comes to finding the next superintendent?

[00:08:29] Vivian Song: I think we need to find a superintendent that demonstrates they're really good at building a team. In Seattle, we have a lot of high expectations for our superintendent, understandably, because the success of our students kind of hangs in the balance as whether or not the superintendent does a good job. But I would be really looking for somebody who can identify what their own strengths and weaknesses are and build the team around that. 

I would say that for example, in the last couple of years, we actually haven't had a chief academic officer. That position hasn't been filled. Since Art Jarvis left it hasn't been filled. And I find that kind of concerning, given that we've got some pretty clear academic goals, and we don't have a single point person who is perhaps accountable to that achievement of those goals. 

So I want some reassurance that this person can build a team. I think that this person needs to be able to set a plan for the first 100 days, but also a 10 year plan. In Seattle public schools, it often feels like we are just lurching from one crisis to the next crisis, putting bandaid solutions. I think what would be helpful is to have a clearly defined vision for "10 years from now, where do we see Seattle Public Schools and our students?" 

So those are the two things that I think the board needs to focus on. Somebody who can build a team and support that team, and execution of the second point, which is a long-term vision. And even "what are the quick changes they can make in the first 100 days to get us onto that path?"

[00:10:08] Christie Robertson: What do you think is the right balance between centralized control versus school-based decision making?

[00:10:15] Vivian Song: I thought this was a really interesting question. And I will answer that question, but I just want to make a comment, which is, I think the reason we have felt like there isn't the right balance between central control and school-based decision making is because there is actually a disconnect between central office and schools. And so by virtue of that, it feels like we have not found the right balance. I think that if there was a better connection between the central office and schools, then we would be better able to find that balance. 

And I actually do think it needs to be a balance. I would be in favor of more of a hybrid approach. So I think school leaders and communities should have be empowered to use their voice and the resources they have and their individual school communities to serve their students. They know their students the very best. They knew their communities the very best. And I think they need flexibility in areas like professional development, enrichment activities at their school, what are maybe culturally relevant curriculum or programming that they can have at their school. 

An example that I can give is at Dearborn Park, one of the teachers leads this really beloved lion dance program that goes out and performs at other schools. Like that is totally fitting for Dearborn Park, and they absolutely should continue to have that enrichment program. 

I think there's an important role that central office plays, which is to ensure that there is equity across the district. And so they need to set really clear goals for what we think student success looks like for every single one of our students, and to work to make sure that all the individual schools have the resources that they need to ensure student success. So, we need to make sure we have quality curriculum, staffing, and support services.

[00:12:12] Christie Robertson: Okay. Next question. What should the board do if the district isn't meeting its goals for students?

[00:12:20] Vivian Song: So I think that the district can't just merely accept progress monitoring. They should take action if it feels like we're not making progress on our goals for students. And I think when I was serving on the board one very specific way that I was trying to push the district and I was trying to take action was – I felt that if it looks like the strategies are not working, I would ask the district staff, “What work have you done to understand why the strategies have not worked to date? And what new work can be done?”

It has, over time, seemed like we continue to use the same strategies over and over. And of course, at some level you want there to be enough time to see if the strategies work, but actually doesn't feel like there's been much work in trying to pinpoint – what about the strategies has actually worked or not worked?

An example I can give is at some point they talked about absenteeism being an issue and it was highlighted in one or two progress monitoring sessions. And then there was no follow up on that. Where's the evidence that they are continuing to gather data on absenteeism and even coming up with strategies to address absenteeism? 

Other things that I would try to do as a school board director is, going back to what I was saying – I think there's a disconnect between schools. So I'm curious if principals are actually participating in progress monitoring. Are they receiving this data that the school board and the broader public is receiving? Because if the school principals are not getting this data, they maybe are not even doing course correction at the school level. So how can we expect there to be any overall progress?

[00:14:10] Christie Robertson: What should the board do when the district isn't meeting community expectations?

[00:14:14] Vivian Song: I think that the board needs to show demonstration that they are aware, and they're going to push the superintendent to make a plan. I would give examples like: council member Deborah Juarez of District 5 – she had something in her newsletter that was very interesting, which was a tally of different topics that she was hearing from the community and, like, how often she was hearing from community members about those topics. 

I think that's a really transparent way to communicate not only to district staff what kind of messages the school board is hearing from community around its missed expectations, but also to communicate to the public in an acknowledgement – we have received contact from you, and we are tracking it. Having that kind of clarity on what the topics are and how often we're hearing about them may also help prioritize the work of the school board and the superintendent. 

With the caveat of – you want to be careful that you are not listening to only the loudest voices in the room, so to speak. But often I have been attending some superintendent engagement sessions, including the one in Chinese. And it's kind of remarkable, very consistent messagings even across languages and across communities. So I do think that. The board should be taking proactive steps when community expectations are not met.

And in terms of guardrail monitoring, I think that this one has been kind of tricky, because it doesn't feel like it's really matched with the timing of things. It feels like we're only reporting on this not working at the very end.

[00:15:59] Christie Robertson: And last question. What is something that you want voters to take away about your approach to being a school board director?

[00:16:07] Vivian Song: I would encourage voters to go back and look at my old Director Facebook page. It's actually still up because of public records requirements. But I think you'll kind of see how I responded during some of our more contentious moments, like the SEA strike, when there was proposed bell times, and kind of just see how I was trying to reach out to community to explain the issues and trying to be responsive to community concerns. 

I think I've demonstrated very consistently that I always do my homework, I ask really important questions, and I'm a very strong listener to community and stakeholders. 

If you go on my endorsements page, you’ll actually see a pretty broad, diverse list of endorsements. Like Jamie Pedersen and Nicole Macri, who are budget writers at the state legislature. To PTA leaders at many of the schools in District 5, including TOPS K-8 and Washington Middle School. I think this is a reflection of the work that I have done as a school board director, one, but two, the work that I have been continuing to do for kids since I left the board. 

So I hope that's what they will take away from my approach – that I do my homework, I listen to a lot of stakeholders, and I will ask very probing questions. Because I do think that is the primary work of school board directors. Not to necessarily get into the operational weeds, but certainly to ask “why?” “Why was that the approach that you took?” “Why is this happening?”

[00:17:41] Christie Robertson: Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being here, Vivian Song. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us and with Seattle voters. And good luck on your campaign.

[00:17:54] Vivian Song: Thank you!

[00:17:55] Preview of other D5 candidates 

[00:17:56] Christie Robertson: Be sure to listen to our interviews with the other five D5 candidates. 

Allycea Weil: 

Allycea Weil: A lot of the time, people will look at a resume of a candidate and say, like, "Oh, do you have policy expertise?" I know how to read a report and write and craft things as well, even without that policy background. And honestly, the result of those with that background hasn't been very good. As a common person, as a gig worker, as someone who is from the population, it's just hard to see wealthy, resourced people trying to make an effective policy for us. Time and time again, it just seems to fail. And I think we know what we need. 

Janis White: We have a law in Washington that defines the responsibilities of school board directors. And as a lawyer, that's where I start. And that law is actually a lot broader than many people realize. School board directors write and adopt policies, hire and evaluate the superintendent, and approve the budget. And those three things are important to be sure, but I don't think they tell the whole story. Starting with the state law, it says that "the school board is accountable for the proper operation of the district". Not the superintendent – the school board. That doesn't mean that the school board should get involved in day-to-day management, but the school board must have processes in place to be able to know whether the district is operating as intended by its policies.

Christie Robertson: Julissa Sanchez:

Julissa Sanchez: I am shoulder to shoulder, elbow to elbow with my community. I'm not here for my agenda or my voice; I am a leader that likes to pass around the mic and the megaphone. My leading is definitely going to be with the voice and experiences of students, and most importantly underserved students. And right now, my approach is really going to be very protective of undocumented students, English learners, and young people who are in special education programs and really listen to, like, what do they need? Because they are the experts of their lives and of their solutions. Young people are so wise. And we as adults sometimes forget that. 

Christie Robertson: Landon Labosky:

Landon Labosky: The school board needs to be able to understand the complex issues happening at the district level and really dig into the policy issues happening with funding, dig into the operational issues that are happening with transportation and, like, insurance at schools, or keeping the lights on at schools. But then on the flip side, we need to be including parents and community members more. And you need to be able to take that information and communicate it effectively to reach a wide audience. 

Christie Robertson: And Vivian Van Gelder: 

Vivian Van Gelder: I think the shortcomings of the progress monitoring system that the board has set up right now are kind of a reflection of the lack of capacity inside our central office to actually engage in meaningful organizational change and restructuring, which is what we desperately need. Progress monitoring is not a bad idea in itself, but that kind of model can only work when the initial conditions for it exists. And that means that you need a central administration that can actually be responsive to what the board is asking of it. And we don't have that right now. When we don't have the conditions for accountability, it can't really work. 

[00:21:23] Christie Robertson: Ballots will be mailed Friday, July 18th, and primary ballots are due by Tuesday, August 5th. As always, stay curious, stay cozy, and thanks for listening to Rainy Day Recess.